S8E9: Event Psychology with Victoria Matey

How can understanding psychology transform your approach to event planning? In today’s episode, host Dr. Kristin Malek introduces the concept of event psychology with Event Psychology Advisor and Co-Founder of Matey Events,Victoria Matey. Together, they explore how events serve as catalysts for behavior change, emphasizing the integration of behavioral science into the event industry. Dr. K and Victoria discuss common event planning pitfalls while advocating for innovative strategies, including leveraging advice for feedback, reimagining SWAG, and employing secret attendees for authentic insights.


Meeting Psychology (1:15)
Why You Should Experiment (3:41)
Employing Secret Attendees (11:48)
Matey Events (16:08)
Event Neuroscientists (19:35)
Look Where Others Don’t (22:59)

Connect with Victoria:
Website: matey.events
Event Psychology Lab (online course): eventpsychology.thinkific.com
Event Psychology Club (membership and resources): eventpsychology.gumroad.com


Visit the Experience University website for more information!
www.experienceuniversity.org

Connect with us on our socials!
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Facebook: Experience University
Facebook: Design, Market, and Sell-Out Your Events
Instagram: @kristin.malek
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinmm/ 

Transcript

Speaker
Welcome to the Experience University podcast, where we aim to educate, inspire, and empower individuals who wish to design transformational experiences. Now, your host, Dr. Kristin Malek.

Dr. K
Hello, everybody. Welcome to our next episode in season eight on Experience University Podcast. I'm excited for this one. And no, I don't say that for everyone, almost everyone. But today we have Victoria Matey on the podcast, and I've had this scheduled for months. Victoria and I have tried to connect for months now, and I'm pumped because today is all things psychology. So thank you, Victoria, for being on the podcast.

Victoria
Thank you for having me. It's great we finally met up.

Dr. K
I'm excited. We've already been talking for a bit. We could totally geek out on so many psychological things. I know you've been a consultant, full-time consulting for a long time. Give everybody on the podcast who's listening, all of our events and experience design professionals and students also who are studying events and experience design. Tell them a little bit about what you do because when people hear "meeting psychology," they might have no idea what that is, right?

Victoria
So I'm an Advanced Psychology Advisor. And when people hear psychology, you are right. It might be confusing for some, and a lot of people think that I'm an academic researcher, but I'm not. I'm very much a practitioner who applies research to experience design to events, and I've got 20 years in advance. I've been an event planner myself, but that's complemented by my passion and exploration in behavioral science and psychology.

And I study scientific concepts and analyze research but always with a practical lens. I translate this science into advanced language into actionable strategies, practical takeaways specifically for event professionals, event owners, industry partners. Because this is important to make science approachable and applicable to event design. And again, this distinction matters. I'm not a researcher, I'm a practitioner. And in short, I build bridges between the knowledge of human behavior, mind, and the practical world of events.

Dr. K
I absolutely love that. And that's why we get along so well because we're both translational in that way. In fact, so many of the government grants now within the United States but also worldwide and some of the EU type of credits, they require this translational part, translational researcher, or translational practitioner. So we're both right there with that, like, “let's apply it, let's get out of this, and like actually apply it.” So I don't know any of your answers ahead of time, which is rare because most of the time I get on and I'm talking to all. So I have no idea where this is gonna go, and I am living for it, Victoria. I'm excited. Season eight is all things interviews, and one of my favorite ways to start the interviews is to take people from what do you think that people are doing "quote-unquote wrong" all the way up to the future. So we're going on a journey together. So obviously, we don't live in a dichotomous world. There is no right, there is no wrong. Everything's a scale. I will say wrong just for the benefit of everyone who's thinking of that. But if you had to list one thing in your opinion and experience that events or experience professionals are getting "quote-unquote wrong" right now, what would that be from your opinion and experience?

Victoria
Yes, I think chasing that next shiny big thing instead of experimenting is one thing that I think is wrong. You know, what I've seen many times in the past is that organizers follow the trends. We heard that breaks and wellness are a thing now, it's popular, or everyone else is building a community, or personalization is what people respond well to. So whatever the thing is, we need to approach it kind of that way. But then it turns out that breaks are not designed properly to make a real difference, right? That personalization is more about bombarding people with messages that fake authenticity.

I recently had a LinkedIn contact who sent me an invite to the event and a personal message on LinkedIn. And I was really interested; I had a comment, and I replied with a question. They never responded back to me. Never. Why? Well, I guess because that person didn't mean to start a conversation in the first place, right? But they were interested in getting me to register through a personal message because “wow, oh personalization works,” but it doesn't work that way, right? You know, another example with communities, everybody is building a community with the event. But then we see that communities are still bad for some events, and it becomes even more frustrating for people who join because they were expecting some meaning out of it, right? And I think instead of following what others do and following the trends, event organizers need to try things out and see what works for them because every event is unique, and it's more about context, right? That is specific for that specific event.

We need to see what works for your audience, for your event, for your context, and keep things genuine. And yeah, an experimentation mindset sounds scary. But in fact, if you start small, then benefits can be huge. I'm sure every event planner knows that details matter, right? If we talk about it all the time. So if you add a bit of psychology to that mix, you don't need massive resources to see big changes. I talked about this example on several podcasts already. But I really like it because it's a great one to show how simple it can be to change the usual thing way of doing things and get a huge advantage out of it because it's based on science.

So the example is to ask for advice from your audience instead of feedback, and it's just one word that you change on your survey, asking for advice instead of feedback. But it's a powerful shift to the whole concept or idea of getting feedback, right? So people perceive it in a different way when you ask for advice. Another example that comes to mind is about swag ideas for attendees. The question is, “to be or not to be,” right? And then the second question is what it should be to be effective, and lots of organizers think about it, and lots of ideas that come to mind first is about how to “wow” participants with this SWAG, right? What if instead of giving something to attendees, you give them something that they can give to someone else, right?

Research shows that we actually feel happier when we give something to others. It's a slight tweak, but it makes attendees feel good because they bring joy to someone else, right? It also turns swag into a conversation piece about your event. It's a win all around. I remember I attended my trade show, and I was so pressed. I didn't have time. It was a new city, and I was away from my family and from my kid, and I promised her to bring something as a souvenir from that city. And I realized that I'm only within this trade show. I didn't have time to shop and look for gifts for her. And then I saw, it was a PCMA booth, they had soft toys. So I brought her that toy from that business trip, and she loved it so much. And I felt good about myself. I was a good mom, you know, I completed my promise. So it was good for myself. It was good for her because there was a gift that I promised to bring her.

Dr. K
Was it a bear? I think I might have gotten the same from PCMA.

Victoria
Yes, it was.

Dr. K
I did the exact same thing. Oh my gosh, that's so funny.

Victoria
But the interesting thing is that the legacy of it lasted even longer because I recently made a content piece about event marketing. And I provided this as an example in the article. But my daughter, back at the time, she was five. She loved it so much that she made a drawing of it. It was really cute and nice. And I used that drawing in my article, and that was for the Korean publication that PCMA Toy was brought to the attention of Korean Professionals. Years later, in an article about psychology, as an example of how such a tweak can change perspectives and become a memorable object. I think it's a good example of how small changes lead to big results.

Dr. K
Yeah. Oh my gosh, I absolutely love that. I have never heard that concept in particular before. I was planning an event for event professionals during COVID on how to plan effective hybrid events. I just asked them flat out. I said, “What is the best swag item you've ever gotten?” And it was a fill-in-the-blank. So there were no pre-selected choices, and overwhelmingly, over 85% of event professionals at this event said pens. And so me and my team were sitting there like, okay, like a good pen, but that's so subjective.

So what we ended up doing is we got 10 different donors to donate their pens. And then we did a pen competition, so every single person got all 10 pens and a scoring sheet, and then they got to write, and then we awarded the best pen. We had a trophy for the sponsor for the best pen. And then everybody got 10 pens, or what we actually saw happening on the floor is they were trading like, “Oh, you like that pen? I like this pen,” and they were trading. So then they got multiples, and it was all branded, and it passed on, which was great. And then we didn't actually have to pay for any of it. But I like your idea of getting a gift for somebody else because that's what I do. Like at Expo Expo in December, I just walked around the trade show, I got all the candy and all the things that became my daughter's stocking stuffers for Christmas. So it's so true. Just haven't thought about it that way.

Oh, that's so good. Okay. So, perception is projection. So we always think of things or provide things or provide advice from our personal perspectives and our personal background. And this really came home to me when I was at an event, a continuing-ed event, and this breakout was talking about “What are metrics to evaluate community?” and nobody in the room had any answers. And then I was like, “Well, that's odd. People have been building communities forever.”

And then I was at a separate event like two months later, same session, same conversation – no one was raising their hands. And I was like, “Well, we just don't have the right people. You're not asking the right people, right?? Everybody in this room needs this information. But we have to go to a different industry to get that answer, but nobody was pulling in the other industry. So I'm asking this question very specifically to you from the psychology standpoint because you're gonna have a different viewpoint than everybody else. From this psychology standpoint, what are things that most meeting professionals don't even have on their radar that they should have on their radar?

Victoria
A couple of things. But I'd like to highlight this one observation as a way to get better quality feedback and as a way to get more insights about what people feel in relation to your event and what they think about the event. And I think our observation is so underrated. We are obsessed with data and surveys, which is fine. I'm not advocating for doing things just one way or another way. I feel like we should not rely that much on surveys as we do now because asking questions is enough only if you assume that people are rational and they make perfectly logical decisions, right? They aren't, and they don't. And that's actually the major takeaway from scientific studies.

But watching what people actually do, on the other hand, will get you one step closer to fixing your event issues, to discovering some original solutions, out-of-the-box solutions. And you should make surveys with observations to achieve those true insights. And I've recently had a conversation on LinkedIn about secret attendees. I posted a comment saying that in the early stages of my consultancy, I offered this as a service, to be a secret attendee with my experiences as an event planner, and also knowing that observing people actually provides you with more insights.

But I realized that the industry was not ready for that. And I hope that we are getting there right now because there are so many more discussions on things like intangible KPIs, psychological safety, science-based solutions, and tools that help create truly meaningful experiences, right? So I think we should look at these secret attendees and the idea. Pay more attention to this idea, I would say. Because again, it provides you with an opportunity to observe people in the field, like in reality, and see what kind of things they really do because people can say all they want. But there is this intention-action gap from psychology, from behavioral science that I'm sure you know about, and it's true that we say one thing, and then we do another thing, and it's not because we lie or because we want to mislead someone, it's because it's human nature. So observation.

Dr. K
Yes. No, I'm glad to know I'm not the only secret attendee. Yeah, I was actually built on a grant where all I did was go around to 24 different events, and I was a secret attendee, and then I reported out. It was really fascinating, but I completely agree with you. It's taking a long time to get the event industry to that perspective where they're like, “Yes, I'm ready for that. I'm ready to pay for that. I'm ready for that direct feedback.” Right.

So, future pacing, because obviously we've already been talking, we could talk all day, and I'm sure every single person on this podcast that's listening would benefit so much. They could hear you talk all day. Okay. So before we go into the third question, how can people interact with you? Like you have so many great resources. You have a course and you have a club, a networking group. Tell people about these things so we can continue the conversation and then we'll get to our last question.

Victoria
So if you want to reach out and you need some tailored advice, then you can email me, you can contact me on LinkedIn. Obviously, you have all my contacts on my website matey.events. Then I do have two things that, you know, your listeners might be interested in. One is the Event Psychology Lab. This is a non-demand self-based course. It's short, but it's comprehensive because I cover basic psychology, behavior science concepts, and practical application to events. So it's designed specifically for those who are starting out with the event psychology approach and don't know much about it. So I provide case studies, a lot of examples, and references to research.

If you need to convince someone else, you know, on your team, then I’ve got you covered. You've got all this research cited so you can go back and check it and show it to someone else. And then another thing is the Advanced Psychology Club. This is a community for those people who are already familiar with the approach and want some deep dive. I provide exclusive content to the members of the community, content that I don't share anywhere else, you know, links to studies, white papers, and reports that are not mainstream, the videos. I do provide a lot of ideas that I'm thinking about myself, and I share them with the club members. I also share a podcast, the psychology podcast episode recaps there. We host online meetups once a month, and there is a one-on-one monthly catch up with those on the best friends for our tier. So you've got a lot of things if you join the community. So if you're interested, please do join. So those two things that I would highlight.

Dr. K
Absolutely. I will definitely make sure all of that's linked in the show notes to your website and your LinkedIn and all of the things. I'm signing up for the lab after I get off the call today. I'm so excited. Even if it's stuff I already know, it’s fascinating to have the case studies and the links and the research. You know, all the stuff that AI is not good for, like valid research and valid links and references to take to your boss when you're trying to support a change or arguing in that way.

Victoria
Yes, it's an important one because I know from my own experience, event planners have a lot on their plate, so they don't really have time to dig deep and find these justification or another link, another reference to convince their boss or team members to implement some small change. So this can actually help in cases like that.

Dr. K
Yes, for sure. So then from your perspective, what does the future hold for events from your perspective? It could be super psychology. It could be not. What's the future of events from your perspective?

Victoria
I love this question. A few years ago, I dropped a blog post on my website called "Are We Ready For Event Neuroscientists?" I feel like it's still really, really valid, and sort of it was my cry, you know, for the radical idea of involving a human behavior, mind expert on the event planning team. And it seemed really crazy at the time. It was, I don't know, seven, 10 years ago, maybe, right?

And fast forward to now, and I know there are a lot of people who are like-minded who believe that we need more neuroscience and behavioral science and psychology in events. And I myself have been fortunate to work with those people. Some of my clients that have the same understanding about planning tangible concepts step to even design and going psychological instead of logical with their solutions. Right. It's not a common practice yet, but it's a huge difference compared to what I've seen a few years ago. Right? And I think that the future holds the role of Chief Behavioral Officer because it will become standard. And I'm confident about that. Events are something more than just moments in time where people need to have fun and do business.

They are a catalyst for behavior change, and they have always been. It's just that even professionals didn't quite realize it, but now they are. And that's why, I personally know a few companies that already hired people with psychology degrees on their team. We know that there are a lot more discussions around topics like belonging, psychological safety, emotions, well-being, all those things that are tied back to how people behave and how they think. And so we are starting to design events for how people think, and for that, you need to have an expert on the team who focuses on those things specifically. So that's what the future holds.

Dr. K
That's good for you and for me, I mean, with our backgrounds.

Victoria
The future is bright.

Dr. K
We have so many people all around the world that listen to this podcast and sending LinkedIn messages and asking for specific content, which is what season eight is all based on: “I want information in this area.” Like I think the one that's releasing before you is in LARPing, like Nordic LARPing, I'm like, “OK, you want Nordic LARPing? I'm giving you Nordic LARPing.” So to anyone listening to the podcast today, if you have an idea of something that you wanna hear as applied to the event or experience design industry, shoot me a message on LinkedIn or via email and we'll make sure to have an episode on it. Victoria, what is one piece, one thing if anybody listening to this call can take one thing away from this entire conversation, which is so fascinating that one practical nugget that they could apply. What would that one thing be?

Victoria
I would say look where others don't. I mean, if everybody highlights that they have a jam-packed agenda, don't do the same. It's actually counterproductive. It's going to help you win more attendees, right? You know, if everyone else does one-hour keynotes, don't. Don't if your audience is skeptical about it. I talked to a fellow event professional recently and he shared how they reduced the length of sessions. And a lot of people in the audience were not happy about it when they announced it before the event, but they changed their mind when they actually experienced it. If I might add another takeaway here, because it leads to another thing that I'm thinking about a lot, that you as the organizer need to educate your audience because it's a two-way street. Yes, organizers have a big chunk of responsibility about the event.

But participants are also responsible for the outcomes of attending the event. But because, you know, we humans, we are wired to avoid cognitive effort, we are irrational. We are, you know, we tend to forget things, these factors all affect our behavior. You know, you can get the best app ever for your people, but they won't download it, right? Or you can design the most interesting and engaging networking activities, but they won't feel comfortable doing it because they need some extra help and education prep, right? So guide them, provide them practical guidance about your event before and after it. And also explain things where possible why you do it the, you know, in a different way and that way by guiding them through it, you make it a successful partnership for you as the event owner and for your audience.

Dr. K
I love that so much. You know, we were talking before we even recorded the podcast about how I've been asked so much recently to do all of these artificial intelligence keynotes and breakouts. And there's so many great AI speakers like Nick Rel, love Nick, if you're listening, love you. There's so many great AI speakers out there. But one of the reasons why some people are choosing me as like the precursor to someone like Nick is that I do talk about psychology and neuroscience, the whole first half of my presentation to get the mind open, the neural pathways open, to explain that in a very friendly way and then get their mind open to the AI and the potential and possibilities of AI. And then if someone like Nick or another great AI speaker comes after, who's much more logistical or looks at all the possibilities within our field or industry, I mean, that's a perfect matchup there. And it's exactly what you just said. You have to pre-frame, you have to lay out the road, you have to explain things.

I absolutely love everything you said. This may or may not be my longest podcast episode of the season, but it was so absolutely incredible to have you on. I could talk to you literally forever. I wish that I could. And thank you so much for being on the podcast today. Thank you so much. Absolutely. Well, for everyone who's listening in, stay tuned next week for another incredible episode. We're coming close to wrapping up. We always do 12 episodes a season. I believe this is episode nine. So we've got a few more and then we'll be rolling into our break before season nine. Thank you so much again, Victoria, and I will talk to everybody soon.

Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Experience University podcast. Stay tuned for our next episode.